ACROSS THE POND Europeans Opting for MBAs Closer to Home B-school-bound Europeans are increasingly applying to MBA programs on the Continent, which are shorter and cheaper than their U.S. counterparts
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Getting into Business Schools — Rd 3 — Is It Even Worth Applying?
From: Fletch To: All
Just wanted to gather some opinions of whether applying in Rd 3 makes sense...
I'm taking the GMAT in less than a week. I've been scoring in the 710-750 range on the prep tests. Assuming I score in the middle of my range when i take the actual exam, my stats would look like this:
GPA: 3.6. Econ business major from pretty good undergrad b-school.
GMAT: 730 (Q46,V45)
WE: 4.5yrs (5 when i'd be leaving for school) in a niche finance/investment banking group. Promoted 3 times in 5 years.
ECs: 2 yrs as junior board member and member of fundraising committee for local education charity - been involved working the charity for over three years. Also involved in industry-related organizations and coed/rec sports.
Plans for MBA: Broaden my education experience (my focus would be finance) and career opportunities - would like to jump into a generalist I-banking assoc role post-mba. The firm I work for now is very much a niche/industry-specific business, thus i'd like to use the MBA to reboot and open up opportunties.
My question is, given those basic stats, does it make sense to even apply Rd 3 at Booth or Kellogg? I'm also considering applying to Darden, UNC, and Notre Dame. I'd prefer to start my MBA next fall, but I don't want to waste my time applying now if getting accepted is a long shot.
Thanks for the help.
From: IUMBA To: K11
I whole heatedly agree! Thunderbird is often brushed aside but it is the epicenter of International Business studies and does not get a great deal of credit in a business environment which is global, inter-related and culturally diverse. If a manager of the future cannot navigate the global business landscape, their effectiveness would be blunt.
From: Personal MBA Coach To: Fletch
In general the schools like to know why you are applying in Round 3, if you were doing other things at work, changed ideas etc. Round 3 is harder as you know and sometimes they wonder why you didn't apply in round 1 or 2. Your stats are pretty good, though would want to know what school and what firm (understand why you are not posting in public forum) in order to give you specific recommendations. The latter 3 you would have a good shot at round 3, and the first 3 would be a challenge but not out of the question. If you want the best chance, I recommend waiting until next year and applying in R1 or 2.
Some people I say don't even bother, but I would not say that to you (though without knowing what school and what firm it makes this a bit more challenging)
Good luck and reach out with further questions or if you want an application coach to help with the essays.
-Scott
From: Fletch To: Personal MBA Coach
Thanks, Scott. I appreciate the insight. Another question I have is - do some schools view Rd 3 differently than other schools? Specfically, are certain schools more difficult than their peers in Rd 3...e.g. is Booth's Rd 3 admissions process similar to Rds 1 & 2, while Kellogg is much more difficult in Rd 3?
From: JinShil2 To: Fletch
Assuming you get around 730, you have a shot at all the schools.
Whether you should apply depends on what benefits would you get out of starting your B-School this fall (as opposed to next fall). You already know the costs (mainly your time) of applying to B-school. Would the benefits outweigh the costs?
You are going to have a better chance in R1 and R2. If you are highly motivated to attending B-school this fall, then I would apply in R3. If next year would do, then I would pass.
From: MBAApply To: Fletch
If you can afford to wait, then wait. Round 3 is really more of a crapshoot especially for those who are from traditional backgrounds like yourself (finance - yes you may not be the cookie cutter IB analyst, but you're still a close enough cousin), and as such it's closer to being a hail mary at schools like Booth or Kellogg for Round 3.
As for Darden, UNC and Notre Dame -- I can see why you may want to go to Darden (as it's a top 16, maybe you have family in the area, etc.) but given where you're at in your career, I'm not sure whether going to schools outside the top 16 is worth your time and money. You say you want to do banking post-MBA, and as you know the banks do most if not all their recruiting from the top 16 schools, and even within those schools - they focus mostly on the top 8 (H/S/W, Booth, Columbia, Kellogg, Sloan and Tuck). Schools in the bottom half of the top 16 they tend to recruit at Stern, Cornell and Yale more heavily than at Darden/Michigan/Duke (which are all more industry/general mgmt) or UCLA/Haas (more west coast industry/tech).
Given your goals and your overall profile, I'd wait - you're likely more in range for Booth and Kellogg for Round 1 or 2.
Alex Chu
From: FrancescaBW To: Fletch
Hi,
I have to agree with the others. Round 3 is definitely more challenging than Rounds 1 and 2 for obvious reasons. Clearly, much of the class is already established, so you are competing for a smaller number of spots. That said, there would not be a Round 3 if it was impossible to get into any program. A strong application is always a strong application. And admissions committee directors will tell you that you should send in your application whenever you feel it's ready and you're able to complete the best application you can.
As to your question about whether some programs are easier to get into than others in Round 3, I think it depends on the year. It all depends on the applications that have already come in and what the class is shaping up to look like. So, what are you leaning toward doing at this point? Good luck!
Thanks, Francesca
Getting into Business Schools — Reading Material
From: jimb0 To: All
Dear all,
I have plans to start an MBA in the next couple of years. Only one thing bothers me about it. I am terribly slow when reading. And well I am convinced most of the programs will include lots of material to read and I will like to start reading now when I have plenty of time and the possibility to digest all the stuff. I would like to find a comprehensive list of material which is currently used in a top rated MBA program. Most of the reading lists I have found are either outdated, or from sources I really canâ?Tt trust. I would like to find the list of books a student has to read while studying a MBA at London Business School. First hand and current material. I am not sure such a list is easy to find. But it will be amazing if someone has any hint. I guess I can probably try to find one student there and just ask, but I am not quiet eager to start stalking LBS students to get the list of books they have to read.
Thanks
From: StacyBlackman To: jimb0
Hi jimb0,
The reading curriculum at business schools with vary, so it may be best to first earn acceptance into an MBA program, and then speak to a member of the business school about reading materials that you can study prior to attending.
I hope this was of help.
Best,
Stacy Blackman
From: jimb0 To: StacyBlackman
Dear Stacy,
Thanks for taking the time. To be honest the list of business schools I am interested is quiet short. Just a couple of good names. I take in consideration curriculum will vary a lot, even in the same school because of specializations. And well don't want to sound stubborn. But in your experience you think I can get a list of the general material for one school if I keep looking around? Or is completely a lost cause?
Thanks.
J.
From: FrancescaBW To: jimb0
Hi,
I have to agree with Stacy. Your reading list will change based on the professors you have, the classes you take, and the time period you're in school. I'm sure you can find out the readings for core courses and the like by simply asking the programs. But it might be an exercise in futility because of the various variables I mentioned above. Besides, when are you planning to actually enroll? If it's not for a year or two, you may not remember everything you read anyway. I understand that you might be a slow reader, but why the rush?
Thanks, Francesca
Any Topic But Business Schools — Egypt — Now What?
From: FrancescaBW To: All
Hi,
I'm curious to know what people think should happen in Egypt now. What do you think should happen?
I look forward to your answers.
Thanks, Francesca
From: MBAApply To: FrancescaBW
Well, it seems to be spreading across the region.
I spent a chunk of my childhood in Libya, where it's total chaos right now, so I'm watching it closely.
How the White House responds will be crucial. Unlike Egypt where Mubarak was friendly and respected amongst other Arab leaders (but who was reviled amongst his own people), Ghadafi is seem as a bit of an eccentric by all Arab leaders and has never had any friends in the Middle East. As such, the White House can go to town on him publicly, while gaining grassroots support amongst the more progressive Arab elements not only in Libya but across the region (read: the young educated folks across the Middle East) by denouncing him and endorsing the protesters - especially since Ghadafi has basically declared war on his own people. In other words, the White House has little to lose and everything to gain by coming out against Ghadafi, who seems to have a tendency to set himself up as a political pinata time and again.
Alex Chu
From: FrancescaBW To: MBAApply
Alex,
Thanks for your comments. It is unbelievable what's happening across the region. I'm struck at how much of this came about thanks to communication via the Internet and other forms of media. What do you think should happen in terms of power in Libya now? Unfortunately, it seems like the country could be headed for civil war. I'm curious to know your thoughts since you lived there.
Anyone else have any thoughts on Libya or any of the other countries in the region that are facing protests in the hopes of power changes?
Thanks, Francesca
From: MBAApply To: FrancescaBW
It's really hard to say at this point re: Libya. I don't know about the "civil war" angle since that would presume that there are competing factions, and the fact is, it's really one man (and his sons) vs. the population at large. The source of the people's ire isn't the "government" but really one man, which is similar to what happened in Egypt and Tunisia (and very different than Iran - which was the people vs. an entire system of government).
I'm optimistic though. Some may fear the Islamists, but the fact is, you can't really get rid of that any more than you can get rid of the evangelical Christians in the US. They represent a hardline view in a culture where religion plays a big part in people's lives.
However, having Islamists in a relatively *open* democracy will be far healthier than having these very same religious element in a more repressive system (regardless of whether they are in power - like Iran or the Taliban, or whether they have been marginalized like in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, by the government). An open democracy tends to temper extremist action because the political system gives them a voice to be heard. - they may still express extremist views, but they will less likely take action on those views (i.e. blowing people up) if they feel they are being represented.
All one needs to look for such an example is Israel -- which is an open democracy where the power ebbs and flows between the hardliners and the moderates, depending on the sentiment of the Israeli voters. Now, of course the ideal would be to have nothing but moderates in Israel, but that wouldn't be possible. And it likely would've been worse had Israel had an authoritarian government - because the hardliners would either be in power, or would have taken even more extremist action if they weren't in power because they wouldn't have a political voice (since an authoritarian government by nature would mean that moderate views have no real voice in government -- but just a competition between one hardline group vs another).
And that's really the hope for the region. You can't get rid of the hardline views or groups, but having an open democracy will ensure that they don't dominate the agenda, while allowing moderate views/groups to have a much more prominent voice. Not only that, given that most open (or "real") democracies allows for such strong viewpoints from all sides to be heard, there's a tendency for political groups to campaign from the extremes, but a strong pull to govern from the middle (not unlike the US - where there tends to be a big difference between political rhetoric and governance -- the former being show business, and the latter being the real work being done when there are no cameras around to capture any soundbites).
Alex Chu
From: FrancescaBW To: MBAApply
Very interesting. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. What do you think these changes are going to do for business in the region? Just wondering.
Best, Francesca
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An interesting kind of calculus is taking place in Europe these days. As Alison Damast reports, ambitious Europeans seeking an MBA—who once opted for elite U.S. b-schools—are now setting their sights on the homegrown variety. Schools like IESE, IE Business School, and London Business School are reporting a surge in applicants from Western Europe over the last few years, while U.S. schools are seeing a corresponding decline.
It makes sense. Even the best European programs take half the time and cost far less than their U.S. counterparts. At the same time, many European applicants are recognizing that they no longer need to cross the pond to find world-class programs—and it might not make sense, particularly if they want to launch careers in Europe. None of this bodes well for U.S. programs, where on a good day one out of three students carries an international passport. If applications from Europe continue to shrink, and they want a truly international student body, U.S. schools will need to accept students from Europe who they otherwise wouldn't. Or they're going to have to fix this problem, and I don't know what the answer is.
Louis Lavelle Business Schools Editor Bloomberg Businessweek
UCLA Anderson: Admissions Q&A MBA Admissions Director Mae Jennifer Shores explains what UCLA's Anderson school has to offer and what it takes to get in
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Thanks for your share! I think this information is helpful for everyone. I'm doing practice GMAT here: gmatonlinetest.com . I hope it's useful for GMAT test takers.
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